When Doing It All Leaves You Empty, with Leslie Forde

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with the help of AI and may contain minor errors or inconsistencies. Please refer to the audio for the most accurate representation of the conversation.

Alyssa: [00:00:00] You're listening to Voices Of Your Village. And today I got to chat with Leslie Ford about the unrealistic expectations of modern parenthood. Leslie's work is such a gift for those of us trying to do it all, and slowly realizing that it all was never sustainable in the first place. We talk about how burnout shows up, why moms in particular are feeling crushed under the weight of impossible schedules, and how to find moments of restoration that are actually doable in real life. We explore what it means to reclaim rest, joy, and self-trust, and why giving ourselves permission to stop striving for perfection isn't indulgent. It's necessary. All right, folks, let's dive in. Hey there. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co-creator of the collaborative emotion processing method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together.

Alyssa: [00:01:09] I'm just excited to get to know you more, to chat more, and.

Leslie: [00:01:13] Thank you.

Alyssa: [00:01:14] And learn a bit here about, I guess, like what led you to writing repair with self care and like, what is the word repair mean in this context?

Leslie: [00:01:26] Oh, I love that question. I completely burned out after my second return to work. Sure it was. It was very unglamorous. I, I was, you know, in a big job at the time and I was told that they had my back. Everything would be fine. But when I got pregnant, I went from managing one team to two. And I had some nervousness about that. Right. I knew that I wouldn't have a lot of time to gel with my new team, and in the 12 weeks I was away. It was like the whole world changed at my then employer. So we were focused on a different strategy about two weeks before I came back. My manager was a lovely man, by the way, called me at home and said, you know, you know, your senior director, your rock star. Well, we had to move her to a different division and and we can't backfill her. And, you know, those open wrecks that you had for the new hires? Well, we had to close them because we're trying to demonstrate profitability and within exam. And so and then within a few months of that, after I was back, three people on one of my teams all had to take unplanned FMLA leave. None of them were parental leaves.

Alyssa: [00:02:46] So you're just like drowning.

Leslie: [00:02:48] I was drowning. It's like I felt like I was in a new job. In effect, I was being asked to bring my most strategic, clear thinking self to the work when I was sleeping in 90 minute increments with a newborn and a toddler. Yeah, and and neither kid, which you'll appreciate. Neither child slept through the night until they were 14 months old.

Alyssa: [00:03:08] Yeah, mine too actually. Seiji was like 16 months old, and Mila was like 18. Almost 18 months. Yeah, they were both. Yeah. Maybe Seiji was 15. She was 17. But somewhere around there. Same.

Leslie: [00:03:21] Right. It's rough.

Alyssa: [00:03:23] Also, just like a note on that real quick. You know how crazy it is. Like now sleeps like. One of the things I've learned for myself. I just, like, need to prioritize for me. And I get between, like, eight and nine hours of sleep most nights. And now when I get like 7 or 6 and a half and I'm so tired and grumpy and like, postpartum, Melissa would be like, this is the dream. I've had seven whole hours of sleep and now I look back and it's so clear to me why everything felt so hard. I was exhausted, right? It's wild how much we do on how little sleep. And we're wondering why it's hard.

Leslie: [00:04:07] Absolutely. I like you. I now prioritize sleep in a way that I never did for most of my adult life. I kind of treated it like it was expendable, because I was just lucky to be born healthy. And I never had a lot of sleep before I had kids. But that window, which is what kind of led me to now, right? Writing the book and kind of sharing the path out from that extreme. But what led to the burnout was, in part hallucinating, not remembering how I got to work. All of these, really, you know, the signs that I wasn't doing well, people looking at me and asking if I was okay. But like a lot of us. You know, I had just come back from leave. I thought it was kind of impossible, the idea of taking a second one, even though I contemplated it at one point. At the time, I was our primary health insurance. I was our primary salary. So for so many of us, and I'll say, coming from my family's from Barbados, I grew up in both countries and in immigrant families. The answer is always to just work harder.

Alyssa: [00:05:20] 100%.

Leslie: [00:05:21] Right. And I'd be typing away, typing away, trying to shield the glow of the computer from the co-sleeping baby. One in the morning, two in the morning, three in the morning. And you know, job that I loved and felt so at home in suddenly became unsustainable. So I did something I thought I'd never do. I downshifted I left, I went to a much larger company, negotiated a four day work week and took a 40% pay cut. And it still took two years to recover from burning out, and the book kind of distills part of that path out and all the things I learned personally and through the research studies about why it's so hard for us to make work, and self-care and child care and home life fit after we have kids.

Alyssa: [00:06:16] You mentioned research studies. Let's go into this because research is so key in being able to have policy changes and really, truly understanding what is happening. I'm so curious to learn more about what your research study has looked like, what you have learned from it, and I think what wellness looks like. One thing that I've wondered is what is possible, right? I think so. I grew up in a low income community. I'm one of five kids, and I grew up in a community where people worked their butts off and they would work long, hard jobs where their linemen fixing poles or working in the school system, or waitressing. Nights and weekends to put food on the table and roof over your head. And just like a grind. So many hard workers. And that's what I grew. I mean, I had my first unofficial job, was babysitting in a paper route with my brother when I was 10 or 12, and then I remember getting my working papers when I was 14 years old, and I was so excited I could work at the restaurant in town. And I have been working as long as I can really remember. Definitely in my childhood. And then I went into early childhood education where you don't get a living wage. And so I've been working multiple jobs my whole life. And now I look at we got two kids and we both work full time, and I want to have time for all the things. I want to have time with my partner. I want to have time with my friends. I have time with my cell phone, I have time with my kids and my family, and I want to be the person that writes the thank you note because I have time to do it right. And I feel like, at what point is it like, yeah, you can have all of this. So I'm wondering what you've learned about this in your research.

Leslie: [00:08:25] I mean, you described it so well. Everyone wants to be excellent at everything.

Alyssa: [00:08:31] 100%.

Leslie: [00:08:32] Nobody wants to be a mediocre mom or a bad daughter to their aging parents, or an absent sibling, or even a mediocre work. Like, everyone wants to be excellent and most of us are willing to work tirelessly for that label. The challenge is that when you have multiple roles, especially roles without a lot of discretionary time like parenting, suddenly everything collapses in on this calendar and we just don't have the freedom to do all the things that we really value. And when you asked earlier, like, what does repair mean? I think repair in in terms of repair with self care. I think of it as restoring your sense of self resetting after identity shifts, making the space where you can feel okay with yourself, making the space where you feel healthy and where you feel like you are honoring your highest priorities. The challenge is it can't be every priority. And that's where a lot of us struggle. And it's not even just internal. It's not a matter of, are you that type A mom, which I do self-identify as that type A mom or did for a long time. The pressure is external to cost of living keeps getting higher. Infrastructure that we really relied on, especially pre-pandemic, like healthcare, K-12 schools, child care, elder care industries that were already fragile have become so much more capacity constrained in the past five years that everything takes longer, right? Like I asked people, when was the last time you to schedule a specialist? How long did that take? Right. You almost have to invest in a part time like full on discovery to find a specialist, navigate their schedule. Find someone who takes your insurance. Make the appointments. All of those things.

Alyssa: [00:10:50] Have child care to get to the appointments? All of it. Right?

Leslie: [00:10:53] Exactly, exactly. Or tap dance your way through having your child with you at your appointment.

Alyssa: [00:10:58] 100%.

Leslie: [00:11:00] All of that is like closing in on what was already a crowded calendar. I mean, the good thing is time famine isn't new. It's just that we are more likely to suffer from it because of what it means to be a mom in modern times. Here in the United States, based on the policies and the structures that we have. But even parents, right, in more broadly, are struggling with increasing responsibilities. Less discretionary time and less freedom. So we feel that right at a soul level, we feel that and we rebel against it. So we try to keep Holding on to every single thing that we value, and it's just not always feasible or it's not always feasible in every season.

Alyssa: [00:11:53] Yeah, I feel this so deep in my bones. I also think I like that you mentioned parents in general, because I look at my husband and as we have shifted expectations for men and for dads generationally, he's not going out for drinks with friends after work and he's not hitting the golf course or whatever. He's home and he's helping with the kids, and I'm hitting the road for work. And then he's here and doing this for work, and we're just tag teaming life, and it feels like it's still so hard to tag team life. And I mean, I don't know, the last time I really deep cleaned any room in my house and I just had to get to this place where I can ask myself what really has to get done right now. What really matters. And we have a really supportive village. I've got a mother in law who lives down the road with her wife and is super helpful, and my parents are retired and will come and help. And and still it feels so hard. I feel like there aren't enough hours in the day. And so I don't write. And there are things that feel like, okay, well, I can't get off of this hamster wheel that's spinning because, yeah, the cost of living has gone up. Or in order to afford childcare, I need to be working this much. You know, it's like this cycle and I'm wondering if you have any hope for us. Is there any hope? Can you help save us, Leslie?

Leslie: [00:13:37] Absolutely. There's hope.

Alyssa: [00:13:39] Oh, thank.

Leslie: [00:13:39] Goodness there is hope. I mean, part of the challenge is that as we try to do everything right, and if you kind of visualize the mom's hierarchy of needs, everything at the base, which if you think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, that's food and shelter and water. And in the mom's hierarchy of needs, that's our children's well-being, their milestones, their education. The next layer includes all the household things. Not even deep cleaning, right? Just just dealing with the basics of the household dishes. Dishes, laundry, right. Like laundry never ends. The professional role comes next, and then way up at the tippy top are all the things that we would really do for our mental, physical and emotional health, like stress management and, you know, healthy adult relationships, sleep movement, nutrition, learning, fun. So I didn't learn right away. I, I did work for two different mental health companies, and then I had access to all these great clinicians and doctors and researchers and neuroscientists. So I had those interviews. In addition, all the research that I've now done right in the past nine years, but before all the research, I just knew I wasn't making time for those things. I didn't know that those top categories all help reduce cortisol in our bodies, and they help us manage the stress and the intensity of everything we're doing in the bottom two thirds, things that we value, things that we love, things that many of us worked really hard to have. But it doesn't change the fact that we're not meant to spin in service 24 over seven.

Leslie: [00:15:26] It doesn't feel good to give up sleep. It doesn't feel good to give up time with friends. And it certainly doesn't feel good not to move or exercise. And in my big study, the one that's active right now, close to 4000 parents, 97% women. So I'll caveat super mom heavy. Close to 80% say they are doing terribly or not as well as usual self care. So if you think about that, of course it doesn't surprise you. But if you are not tending to sleep and movement and stress management and refueling, repairing yourself in some way to manage all of that, like cortisol, all of the stressors, the calendar, Jenga, then it feels really bad very quickly. So part of the hope and part of the answer, there are little interventions that help. There are things we can do to ease stress in our daily lives. There are things we can do to ease our workloads, and some of that is prioritizing and making hard choices and asking or pleading for help. Some of that is building a village for some people. Some people can buy a village, some people do a little mix. But cutting back the work is critical and then reinvesting that energy in taking that walk, or take that five minute meditation or splash the water on your face. Do the little things that make the day more sustainable while you are managing this marathon.

Alyssa: [00:17:04] I saw a meme the other day. It was like one of the craziest parts of being an adult is that on the weekends, you can either do all the things that you have to do that'll make your life easier, or you can do the things you want to do. And no matter which one you choose, you made the wrong choice. And it's so real.

Leslie: [00:17:27] That's good.

Alyssa: [00:17:29] I either got caught up and I switched out my winter to summer clothes or whatever, and I cleaned the house and oh my gosh, I haven't just relaxed at all all weekend. Oh, I just chilled with my family and relaxed and then nothing got done on the to do list and it's still looming. One of the things I've had to remind myself on repeat is that I've never reached the end of the to do list. There is no end, that it is a bottomless pit, and anytime I come close to an end, I will refuel and I'll be like, oh, here, let's fill this back up. Let's go. Here's some more. You know what? You got spare time, Melissa? Here you go. Reorganize that cabinet. Your pantry is a mess. Whatever. Like, I will find more things to do that need to be done. What I have experienced is the feeling of leaving the weekend, or leaving the evening, or the morning or the day and saying, oh, I felt really connected or I really enjoyed the time that we had together. Or man, I had the bandwidth for our kids tantrums or meltdowns or whatever today, and that has had to be my reminder and shift for myself that I'm never going to reach the end of the to do list. But my felt experience of the day will shift and change.

Leslie: [00:18:54] Absolutely. That is exactly the mom's hierarchy of needs dilemma, right? That bottom two thirds you could spend 24 over seven just trying to reach the end of the to do list, and it's not possible. And I think it kind of creates an odd permission, at least it did for me, where I could become ruthless about some activities at the top. And you have to be ruthless because, like, nobody's going to sit back and say, you look tired. How can I help? Can I start doing these things for you? Just sit down. Would you like me to.

Alyssa: [00:19:30] Come do your dishes?

Leslie: [00:19:31] Exactly.

Alyssa: [00:19:32] You have a phenomenal mother in law who does our dishes every time she's over. And bless her, she's a gem.

Leslie: [00:19:39] Maybe I want to visit your mother in law.

Alyssa: [00:19:41] Come on over. We have space for you.

Leslie: [00:19:43] Family, I would say I would love that. All of our family live really far away. The ability, though, to accept, like, deep clean. I mean, you're saying deep clean. I don't even think I surface, right? Barely surface clean these days, and I'm like a neatnik in my soul. I'm that person who used to have color coded folders and everything used to be totally these. And that was the pre-kids like life I had. But now, I mean, it's a good thing you can't see it. It's not pretty, it doesn't look good. But I've accepted that if I want to. Right. If I want to pursue publishing a book, if I want to do this meaningful work that I enjoy, like my nails, I do them myself when I have an event, and only when I have an event, usually like five minutes before I fall asleep, I put my hands like this so I can dry them. Notice my hair is back. There's no complicated like, updo going on.

Alyssa: [00:20:46] So that's what we're working with.

Leslie: [00:20:48] That's so, you know, there was a time when my hair always looked really nice and my nails were always done. And I always had, like, the right shoes and let that ship sail in favor of getting those moments of connection. Like we did go apple picking on Sunday as a family. And, you know, both kids had a great time. My husband had a great time. It was screen free, like, you know, outdoor little bit like, you know.

Alyssa: [00:21:16] Like classic New England fall, classic.

Leslie: [00:21:18] New England fall. It wasn't like a bright sunny day, but but it was fun and we like. And my kids were up like in the apple trees. And those experiences do feel restorative. They do feel fueling. So what I share with people in addition to and I share in the book a lot of detail about how to ease workload. I actually have a load chart for childcare. So you think about childcare not just based on what it costs you financially, but what it costs you in mental complexity. So there's a ton of little changes that help reduce workload, but refueling involves inserting things that you enjoy and making the space, even if it's five minutes, even if it's ten minutes, it doesn't have to be perfect, but really be effective and make the kind of energy level that you have coming into your daily life exactly the way you described it, that much higher.

Alyssa: [00:22:17] I used to have a sign on my desk that said, how you live your days is how you live your life, and I need this reminder because it is so easy for me to look around me and see my to do list surrounding me, and it's so much harder for me to pause and not be productive, right? That the self-care parts for me, the narrative I have around them, and the culture I grew up in, everyone had to work really hard, and I have a hard time slowing down and not doing something and recognizing that every time we say yes to something, we say no to other things, or every time we say no to something, we say yes to other things. And so for me to say yes to going for a walk in the woods, or especially especially if it's just for me and the kids aren't involved or I'm like, I'm gonna go do this thing for me. Feels indulgent, and it's easier for me actually to be like, all right, we're all going to go for a walk in the woods, or we're going to go play outside, or we're going to go apple picking or whatever. I'm like, hashtag making memories and giving them a childhood or whatever. But for me to say I'm going to do something that is fulfilling for me, oh man, it's hard. It is a hard mental game. Even when I'm like traveling for work, I think I have guilt that I'm not doing all the things at home. I know it's harder to be the parent at home with two kids doing all the household stuff than it is to be the parent who's traveling for work. Even if I'm on a red eye or whatever, that's easier than being the parent at home. And so I will make every ounce of everything productive. Like I will not watch a movie on the plane. I will do work on the plane. If we need.

Leslie: [00:24:18] To talk, we need to we need to like we're going to need to like.

Alyssa: [00:24:22] Let's go. Leslie, I need you.

Leslie: [00:24:23] Yeah, I would say let's like, let's stop this bus because that.

Alyssa: [00:24:27] The like that narrative, it's so real that like, I have to be productive all the time and that if I'm not being productive or doing something for my family and not just for myself, that it's selfish. And I know on a nervous system level it's so crucial. Like, I understand the science, but the narratives run so deep.

Leslie: [00:24:52] Absolutely. Interestingly, I was thinking about this recently. I don't think I saw my mother sit down, like actually sit down and relax. So we are just socialized.

Alyssa: [00:25:05] So conditioned.

Leslie: [00:25:07] Our grandmothers, we're just conditioned, right, to see this, like spinning in active service to our families, to our communities, to our friends, to our children. Like that is what is celebrated in motherhood. And we are shamed in some ways if, if we're not doing that, you don't see people sharing that from their social feed. No one says, I'm taking a nap. Hey, look, I'm taking a nap. I'm relaxing. I'm not cleaning out my closet. I'm not cleaning out the garage. I'm not chasing my kids. I'm not going apple picking. I'm just sitting and allowing myself to think a thought. It's just not a thing, right? Among women, it's not. But at the same time, if we embrace that, it's actually if we go down right, having burned out, if we go down is bad for everybody, bad for you, bad for your kids, bad for your career. You know, probably better than anyone that stress and high cortisol levels and parents, you know, translates into stress and high cortisol levels in children.

Alyssa: [00:26:14] Correct.

Leslie: [00:26:15] So as we convince ourselves because what we've seen, it's what we've always been told was right, that we should just kind of keep going, keep going, keep going. But we start to feel ourselves breaking, and we start to feel disconnected from who we want to be, who we were meant to be. Like I tell people, caring for yourself the reason I chose the term very intentionally self care, even though I know it has complicated, fuzzy meaning now. Audre Lorde coined that term right, and she kind of described it. I'm paraphrasing, like self care is a radical act in a world that doesn't value it for us. So I tell moms, like, self care is your birthright and health for moms is my not so secret ministry. We are at greater risk for stress related illness of every kind. Anxiety, depression 80% of autoimmune disease sufferers are women. Hypertension. Fatal heart disease. So it doesn't serve us to stay in an unsustainable level.

Alyssa: [00:27:21] I agree. It's just like, how do you know what to say yes to or what to say no to, right? That any time I'm gonna say yes to self-care, I'm saying no to everything else. And that can feel so hard to know what to say no to and what to say yes to. There's not enough hours in the day, Leslie.

Leslie: [00:27:44] There aren't. I mean, I think that, but that's the starting point. Bottom two thirds of the mom's hierarchy of needs. You know what? And I share this in a lot of detail. Like you can't actually do all of it. And, you know, does the deep cleaning have to happen? I mean, sure, sometimes it probably really does have to happen. But does the deep cleaning have to happen as much as you might really want it to?

Alyssa: [00:28:07] But even like the strength training, the eat this nutritional whatever, the get the sleep, it's like, how am I supposed to do all these things? How am I supposed to meal plan all the whatever ingredients? I'm supposed to be eating 7 million vegetables in different kinds of week, and I don't even know what they all are. How to make them in a dish. And then also, I'm supposed to be sleeping all this and then don't you better be strength training too, because you're going to lose all your muscle mass in perimenopause and menopause. Like what in the world I can't even I it's that is the thing. I'm like, I can't say yes to sleep and strength training and eating 37 million vegetables a week. I can't say yes to all three right now.

Leslie: [00:28:47] Okay, so let me let's work with that.

Alyssa: [00:28:50] Let's dance.

Leslie: [00:28:50] Probably. Yeah. Let's dance. Let's go. Probably not. It probably isn't all of those things. But what other things are happening during the week like is it deep cleaning? Is it like deciding that the counters can really be done, that the Legos can be permanently picked up? Like those things can't permanently happen? I started strength training in February. I'm not going to lie about that.

Alyssa: [00:29:15] You got your weighted vest. You got the social media marketing, right?

Leslie: [00:29:19] Well, I, you know, have been interviewing these great clinicians and doctors, many of whom I quote in the book. And the strength training does matter as it relates to healthspan and longevity. Oh, I.

Alyssa: [00:29:33] Think it's so important. But like, how do you fit it in?

Leslie: [00:29:35] Right. Well, it's like I'm doing less of something else to fit it in. And things are not, like I said, if you looked around like it is not neat and tidy in here. It is not as organized as I would like it to be. There are permission slips and forms, probably waiting for my signature right now that are like crying out to me. I'm probably gonna get like a like a PTO message any minute saying, hey, your kid can't go to the thing because you didn't sign the thing. So there's stuff that, like, slips off and I don't like. I don't feel good about it. But I do know that if I live less healthy years because I'm not taking care of myself. I'm a runner. Running is actually really good for my mental health. That's the thing that I do. But the strength training, I don't love that as much. But Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, I usually spend no more than ten minutes. I'm very like, right? It's like it's achievable. It's better than zero. Am I doing as much as I ideally should? Maybe not, but considering I was at zero for a very long time.

Alyssa: [00:30:50] We'll take ten.

Leslie: [00:30:51] I'm taking taking the ten minutes. So, you know, I tell people when they when we talk about movement, there are days where if I have a flight that's early, I will go to my gym, which is a very close gym, right. I will run for 12 or 13 minutes on the treadmill at 530 in the morning, and that is my run for the day. Most days I'd like to run 3 or 4 miles after drop off. But if, let's say my kids have a parent teacher thing in the morning, or I have an early meeting or I'm at a conference, then it's maybe a 15 or 20 minute, like one and a half two mile run. And it's not my ideal run. When they were babies and toddlers, they were in that running stroller with the rain shield and the whole thing. So just knowing, hey, there's a plan A for the thing I love to do, there's a plan B maybe not as great, but it's shorter and it's still really accessible to me. And there's probably going to have to be a plan C and a plan D. It might not be that you get to take an hour, walk through the woods with the sun beating down on your face, but if you can take like a ten minute walk around your block or up and down your stairs versus zero walk, you know your body is going to like all that positive Attention you pour into your body and into yourself spills over, and you start to expect more from other people around you. I know that not every setting is a psychologically safe setting. So I tell people, start to do the trimming or the boundary setting, which, you know, boundaries are tricky for, for women. Try it at home. Ideally, you're psychologically safe at home. The workplace is messy. Women don't have a lot of psychological safety, especially not mothers. But work through an employee resource group. Work through another group of parents who have similar needs like start small and just like carve back that time with reckless abandon.

Alyssa: [00:32:57] I feel like we came full circle to we want to do it all perfectly, and sometimes it's not a 30 minute strength training opportunity, but there's ten minutes, right? And so instead of, well, I can't do this thing, I think my mindset shift that I can work on is, well, what can you do of it? And a little bit tends better than zero, right? And 30 minutes might be a dream one day. We don't have two young kids and all the craziness of that. It is also like there's like a breath that happens for me when I'm talking to people about our current stage of life, of having a four and a half year old and an almost two year old, and just the constant there. I'm still nursing a human, like there's a human who is always on my body or that needs us at any given point and that wants to hang out with us and not peers right now in their current developmental stage. And that that's not a forever thing. And there's always this, like, okay, this is a season when I'm talking to people and they're like, wait, how are you doing a book tour and running this company and yada yada, ya, and you have these two young kids and I'm like, okay, that's right. They will at some point be like hanging out with friends, and I'm gonna want them to come hang out with me and I'll be like, okay, now I can lift some more weights. I'll do 30 instead of ten at that point or whatever. But that the idea that right now, what can I do.

Leslie: [00:34:30] Exactly when my kids were in the stage that you're in, like there were days while during I mean, I would be sitting in the hallway, we live in a condo, so it's like a narrow hall just waiting for like a potty training situation to happen. And I would do some push ups in the hallway. Like, that was as much strength training as I was going to get for the week.

Alyssa: [00:34:51] I'm like, listen, I'm carrying around £65 worth of kids multiple times at any given point in the day.

Leslie: [00:34:58] Exactly. When my kids were toddlers, I was jacked, right? Because you're carrying kids all over the place, but you do like, just grab a little. Think of it like, think of the messiness of it, to your point, as part of like what's realistic? I think let go of that idea that we can hit every perfect mark and have it kind of come out looking like some sort of a postcard like that is a disservice to women. It's a disservice to mothers because we still pay the penalty, usually with our brains and our energy and our time to try to make things look perfect 100%.

Alyssa: [00:35:41] And I think so much of this comes back to we're still mothering in every sense of the word and running households. And then also a lot of folks added in work outside the home and didn't stop any of the stuff we were doing already. I mean, my husband is way more involved in our household and the parenting than that my dad was and my dad was involved. But just generationally, we've seen a shift there and it's not equal. He has no guilt over not sending the thank you note or whatever, because it was never an expectation that he would send a thank you note. In fact, if he were to handwrite a thank you note, the amount of praise he would receive for sending it, like putting a stamp on it, finding that address, he would be just God's gift. And if I.

Leslie: [00:36:40] Would throw him a parade.

Alyssa: [00:36:41] 100%.

Leslie: [00:36:43] For doing that.

Alyssa: [00:36:44] Correct. And I have this feeling of like, oh, I have to send the thank you note. And if they received it, it would be that that was the expectation and not oh well, she took time to send this thank you note.

Leslie: [00:36:58] This is, I think, part of the dilemma and part of why the gender divide right is so crushing. Thing when moms are partnered with dads, right? And this is true in my home too. It's society's expectations are different. The penalties, those subtle social penalties are different and pervasive when we don't do the thing. I mean, I went from like beautiful stationery that I would order from like, you know, tiny prints or what have you with my kids names on it and handwritten everything to a hasty photo sent on a text with a thank you, with a little picture of whatever the birthday gift was. And it's like, I mean, it's been like a real fast slide when I realized, wow, I could keep doing thank you notes, which I actually really like doing.

Alyssa: [00:37:55] Yeah. Same.

Leslie: [00:37:57] Right. Or and I could keep getting my nails done or I could keep. Right. It's like I kind of keep holding on to things that were part of my identity for so long, or that feel blessed by society. Or I can do the things that are really good for my health, or I can do the things that are really good for my soul or really good for my energy. I do hold on to some homespun types of things, like I make our bread. I make my kids snacks. I cook most nights. Like, that's an old fashioned thing that is very time consuming. And I do it because I really do love to cook. There's a nutrition component I like. I like the control over it and controlling the food. But it's probably the only thing I have left that I really kind of dug in my heels and held on to. But even then, there are some nights, especially if I'm traveling and what have you. It's like, yeah, like my my son will take every opportunity to get someone to order him Shake Shack if I'm not here. Right. So things will happen, but you almost have to just give yourself room to adjust your priority and to adjust those things that you love and dial them back in a way that still feels like you but isn't consuming as much time. If you really don't have the time to do it.

Alyssa: [00:39:20] I like that. Note that they're also going to be things that aren't just like, have to do this for self-care, but there are things that you might like to do that you also might choose not to do, like getting your nails done, etc. because it doesn't really fuel you in the way that your body and soul need. So I don't like to cook. In fact, I hate it and would welcome anybody cooking for my family if that was an option. But I love to go through their clothes and pull out what doesn't fit and figure out what we need and, like, okay, we need boots or we need whatever in this next season. And I love to shop for that stuff. I don't want to outsource it. I love to like go and do the second hand stores right near my chiropractor, and I love to go in and peruse and see like what they have for the kiddos. And that fills me up and I'm not willing to outsource that.

Leslie: [00:40:18] So this is a great example. I hate that stuff. It drives me absolutely like bananas. Like my head wants to spin around. Like if we had a commune situation. Seriously, will.

Alyssa: [00:40:28] You cook and I'll go through all your stuff.

Leslie: [00:40:31] Exactly telling you, but you're holding on to something that is fueling for you. It also has to be done, but it is something that feels like you're honoring a part of your identity. And for me, cooking is the same way. It's great that cooking actually is helpful because we need to eat. But I also tell people like, my sister hates to cook. Like you can buy really good quality prepared foods. You can heat things up, you can assemble things you don't have to like, cook from scratch. I just really like to. So just knowing what things fall into that category where it's kind of like it's a necessity, but it's kind of dressed up like a hobby or vice versa. Like know when you can separate out the part that fuels you from what you absolutely have to do, and you hold on to the core.

Alyssa: [00:41:22] Yeah. And I think it's helpful for me to think about it in that way, because even thinking of like, what could I take off my plate? My husband will say, you know, what's helpful for me to do? There are some things where it's like that would be it has to get done. But what's most helpful is if I can have the time to do it. So if you took the kids on an adventure or you were on for nap time and lunchtime and I could have a couple hours to run to the second hand store to pop into their closets or whatever, it's helpful for me to think about what are the things that have to get done that also fuel me, and how do I ask for what I need to get those done.

Leslie: [00:42:02] That's a brilliant example. Creating the space for it. Getting your husband support. I even say to people, right. If you are partnered and I know not everyone is like create some regularity to your like husband or partner's tasks. Like don't just have it be a hey, I really could use some time this afternoon. I mean, of course there are times we need to do that, but it's like, hey, how about I get Saturday mornings to do the things that I need to do? Or we alternate like you get Sunday mornings, I get Saturday mornings and someone's on kind of coverage, you know, with household stuff, with kids, stuff like giving yourself the positive expectation that there's some time in every week that you can use in ways that fuel you. And it might be that it is doing all the sorting. And going to the second hand store. It might be that you really need a nap that day, right? Or you've been traveling and you're exhausted and you could really just use a slow start. But having that discretion, having that freedom to choose how you use your time, I think that's the Holy grail, right? That's what we need more of to reduce this intense feeling, like we're running a race through the forest and someone's running behind us with a clock. And that is what moms need more of. Like I see in the research, moms are breaking under the strain of trying to keep impossible schedules.

Alyssa: [00:43:36] That's real. And then everything feels so overscheduled. And my dream is that we're just hanging with no schedule. And it takes intention to just carve that out. Yeah. Leslie I'm so jazzed for your book. I'm so stoked that it's out in the world now, folks. Don't sleep on this bad boy. We need it. Repair with self-care. Your guide to the mom's hierarchy of needs. It's out now, wherever books are sold. Thank you for joining us and sharing your wisdom with us. I for sure need it, so thank you.

Leslie: [00:44:14] This was a delightful conversation. Thank you for having me here.

Alyssa: [00:44:18] Stay tuned. After this note from our sponsors, Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown.

Rachel: [00:44:28] I almost had to cancel this today because you know how sensitive my body is to just like everything under the sun. So I drink this tea, this like dandelion root tea. And I usually drink it at night. So in the morning my blood sugar is always like, just not good. Like I can never work out in the morning and it's just not good. Anyway, I drank that tea this morning and I guess it can impact your blood sugar, which I didn't know until about like ten minutes before I was supposed to meet with you. I started shaking uncontrollably, and I was just like, okay, yeah, my blood sugars.

Alyssa: [00:45:06] Weight, like, instead of the coffee because it's caffeine free, right?

Rachel: [00:45:10] No, I drank coffee like I usually do. I just drank this tea like I was cold, and I was like, I'm gonna have a cup of tea.

Alyssa: [00:45:17] Got it.

Rachel: [00:45:18] Everything else was the same. But I never drink this tea in the morning. I always drink it at night. And my blood sugar is just way more stable at night. So anyway, I drink this. Then I start shaking uncontrollably and I'm like, okay, cool. My blood sugar is low, I'll eat. So I had a banana which like usually does the trick and it just like didn't. And I was really weak and started feeling like I might pass out. So I took Cody and I was like, hey, I'm having like a really intense blood sugar episode right now. I'm not sure what's going on. And he was like, yeah, you should eat. And I was like, oh yeah, I am it's just not going away. So I then ate an apple with peanut butter and I'm like lying on the floor still, just like shaking uncontrollably. And I'm like, okay. So I'm googling about this tea, which it can also affect blood pressure, which I also didn't know. And I have low blood pressure. And I guess maybe it's more sensitive in the morning than it is at night. But anyway, I almost passed out and had to eat a bunch of. I ate a banana, then I ate an apple. Then I ate a bunch of chips because I was like, oh, it also is high in potassium. Like maybe because I always have low sodium. So I'm like, maybe I need salt, let me eat some chips. And my hands are literally like vibrating. And I'm like, wow, I might have to cancel with Alyssa because I'm stuck on the floor. But the combo of all that sugar and salt brought me back to life. And here I am. And I won't be drinking tea in the morning. And it's just one more high maintenance fact to know about my body. Can't drink dandelion root tea in the first part of the day.

Alyssa: [00:46:50] The sensitivities that your body experiences Tis. It's so overwhelming.

Rachel: [00:46:57] It's so annoying.

Alyssa: [00:46:59] So annoying.

Rachel: [00:47:00] Like I don't want to.

Alyssa: [00:47:01] I will also say, I think Zach experiences a lot of them and just fully ignores them. It's just like I'm sick or I now have this rash. And so I think the combo of like experiencing them and then the curiosity to know what's happening is a tough one.

Rachel: [00:47:24] Yeah. And then like.

Alyssa: [00:47:25] Because like, he would have been in that space and he would have just been like, oh, I think I'm getting sick. And then it would have passed and he would have been like I guess not. Right. But like, you're curious enough to be like this isn't how I usually feel. This is weird. And then to Google even like, what could it be and what does it do to you? Yeah, yeah. How do you get your blood pressure up?

Rachel: [00:47:52] I just lie down because I have I will get like blood pressure issues sometimes and it's related to my low sodium. Like I always run low sodium and like those things are they have like a reciprocal relationship. That's why they'll tell people with high blood pressure to like, watch their salt intake. So once I once I knew that the T was really high in potassium and then I, I had eaten a banana as my first step to like rectify this, which also is high in potassium. So then I was like, crap, I probably need salt, so I lied.

Alyssa: [00:48:22] Tell me what that comment why I break down the science for me.

Rachel: [00:48:25] So sodium and potassium are like in relationship with each other, and our bodies work best when they're in a specific ratio. And so even if my baseline sodium level maybe was okay, if I then pounded potassium, my body's going to need more sodium.

Alyssa: [00:48:39] Got it.

Rachel: [00:48:40] Thank you. And vice versa. So I was like, okay, I'm going to eat some chips. So I laid on the floor and I'm texting Cody, just being like, hey, I might pass out. So if I don't respond, I probably lost consciousness. So just like, heads up, I'm home alone. And then I was eating chips, and I ate chips for like 2 or 3 minutes, and I started to feel better. So probably that I was helping, like, regulate my blood pressure. I've always had blood pressure issues. And so I know when I start to feel a certain way that I have to lie down and my kids know it, too, like I'll lie down on the floor and be like, I'm really sick, and I might pass out. If I pass out, you need to call dad. And that's it.

Alyssa: [00:49:19] Wild. It's so wild. But.

Rachel: [00:49:21] I can usually, if I feel it, I've never passed out with my kids alone because I'll be like, you guys need to get me something with sugar and something with salt right now. And Nora will bring me the food, and I'll lie down, and I'll. I'll eat whatever it is, and then I'll recover.

Alyssa: [00:49:35] And it brings you back to life. It's just like water in a plant that's dying.

Rachel: [00:49:40] Literally. I'm just. I'm a plant.

Alyssa: [00:49:42] Not to say that you're dying, but.

Rachel: [00:49:45] I mean, it feels like that when I'm, like, losing my hearing. And I'm home alone with the kids and I'm like, crap. Like my consciousness is slipping away.

Alyssa: [00:49:54] Yeah, I also your sensory sensitive. So your interceptive sensitivities are so strong that you probably notice those cues in such a heightened fashion versus I'm not super interceptive sensitive. And so I think that even at all, I'm like a zero on this scale actually. So I'm not like totally ignorant of my internal experience, but I am not super sensitive to it. And I think that if I was experiencing that, a difference is that I don't feel things as heightened as you do. So I wouldn't be as aware of it happening in the first place, and I wouldn't feel it as deeply like, you know, the trending, whatever new, deeply feeling kids or whatever. I really wish we could break down what that is and that our interoceptive sensitive kids, especially if they're also neuro ceptive sensitive but are interceptive sensitive. Kids feel things more deeply, they feel them more intensely and everything hunger tired like sage is interoceptive sensitive and he just wants to snack all day because when he starts to feel hungry, he feels really hungry and wants to just snack, which then makes it hard for him to eat a meal because he doesn't. It's hard for him to go a long chunk of time without just snacking. He doesn't want to get to that feeling of fully hungry.

Rachel: [00:51:22] Does he also feel discomfort when he's fully full? Because, like, I don't like the feeling of being 100%.

Alyssa: [00:51:28] He does not like to feel very full.

Rachel: [00:51:31] Makes me feel like I can't breathe.

Alyssa: [00:51:33] Yeah, exactly. He does not like it. And so he wants like little nibbles throughout the day more than like a full meal. And I don't love feeling really full, but I'm like, unbutton my pants. It'll go away in a little while and call it a day and wear some stretchy pants. Throw on some.

Rachel: [00:51:49] And I'm like, there's pressure on my diaphragm and I can't take a deep breath. I don't like this. Never eating this much again.

Alyssa: [00:51:54] Yeah. He starts to say he really has to go poop, but it's actually not necessarily that he really has to go poop. It's that he's really full.

Rachel: [00:52:01] It's pressure in there.

Alyssa: [00:52:02] Yes, exactly. Yeah. And he's an introspective, sensitive human. So I think that's part of what's at play here, is that you're so aware of those internal cues, and you feel it in such a heightened way that there's not a world in which you're experiencing some of this and it doesn't consume you.

Rachel: [00:52:24] Also, like that's how.

Alyssa: [00:52:26] Whereas I feel like it could catch me off guard, I would just like pass out and you.

Rachel: [00:52:29] Would.

Alyssa: [00:52:29] You must

Rachel: [00:52:30] You would pass out is what would happen. Like, you would pass out from a standing or sitting position. That blows my mind when I see people just, like, faint from a standing position. I'm like, you didn't notice when, like, your vision started getting weird or you everybody's voices sounded far away or like.

Alyssa: [00:52:46] Or like I noticed that vision. Like, remember when I had the ocular migraine?

Rachel: [00:52:50] Yeah.

Alyssa: [00:52:51] And then I threw up in front of a room of, like, hundreds of people after keynoting that presentation?

Rachel: [00:52:55] Yes. Yes.

Alyssa: [00:52:57] Yeah, that was super cool. I noticed, like, my vision got blurry, but I was like Maybe I'm getting a headache or a migraine. Like, after I finish this keynote, I'll drink water and have Tylenol and a snack and probably come back to life. And then it wasn't until I was actively throwing up and sweating. I was like, something's really not right.

Rachel: [00:53:22] Yep. Wow. What a profound observation.

Alyssa: [00:53:28] Just you feel things so much more intensely because you're interceptive sensitive. And so.

Rachel: [00:53:35] Which gives me compassion.

Alyssa: [00:53:37] Yeah.

Rachel: [00:53:37] Abel.

Alyssa: [00:53:38] Yeah. Totally. For Seiji. Yeah. There's interceptive sensitive humans, man, they feel things so much bigger.

Rachel: [00:53:47] Just everything. Nail clipping. Yeah. Just anything and everything.

Alyssa: [00:53:53] This morning, he spilled water. We're on the way to school, and he drank from his water bottle, and some of it dripped. It's a couple drops on his pants, and he was wearing jeans.

Rachel: [00:54:03] Oh, and we stay wet for a long time.

Alyssa: [00:54:06] Yeah, we're. He was like, I spilled my water, and I was like, okay, we can't solve this right now because we're driving, but we can check at school and see if you have extra clothes. I'm actually not sure if you have if I have updated your clothes, if your dad and I have updated your clothes to be winter clothes at school. So I don't know if you have extra pants when we get to school and we always drop me off first in her classroom, and then we go over to his, we drop her off and we're in her classroom and we haven't left yet. And he goes mom, don't forget about this situation. And I was like, what's the situation? And he points to his is like spot on his leg. That was wet and he was like, this situation. I was like, oh yes, we will check and see if you have any pants here. But all of that, like you can't not feel it. There's not.

Rachel: [00:54:55] A power through.

Alyssa: [00:54:56] World. Mila has hand, foot and mouth and had an open blister like a popped a blister like popped on her toe and was open. And Zach and I were just talking about how she didn't even notice it. I was like, hey, Mila, I'm gonna put some active skin repair, then a former podcast sponsor. Thank you so much. On her, we use it all the time. Legit. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna spray your toe. And I sprayed it. I didn't even notice that it had popped. She did not care that I sprayed this stuff on her. And we were just like, what a world of a difference.

Rachel: [00:55:29] It's so that's.

Alyssa: [00:55:31] Having the blisters on his feet would have been a whole sensory experience for him. That was overwhelming.

Rachel: [00:55:37] It's it's unreal.

Alyssa: [00:55:38] Even notice.

Rachel: [00:55:39] Yeah. Or like when Nora's really, really sick. Like sick with a fever. Just down and out and I'll be like, honey, how are you feeling? And she'd be like pretty good. I mean, my head hurts a little bit and I'm a little tired, but mostly I'm good, and Abel's like, I'm dying. I like from a hangnail. Abel's like I'm dying and it hurts so much. And I can't go to school, you know? And Nora could have a broken bone and be like, you know what? I think I could probably make it through the day if, like, maybe, you know, the doctor's appointment could be. At the end of the day, I could still go to school and run the mile and stuff. I think it would be fine.

Alyssa: [00:56:13] Yeah. Isn't it wild that, like, Interoceptive sensitivity? I don't think we talk enough about in the sensory space or just about humans in general. And I wish there was more discussion about it when we're talking about, like, highly sensitive kids or deeply feeling kids or whatever, you want the newest current hot button label to be. But that Interoceptive sensitivity plays such a huge role there. And I think when we know which I just if you don't know yet, you can go to quizlet.com and take a free regulation questionnaire to learn more about you or your kids. You can take it for any age group, and it'll tell you more about what they're sensitive to and then what they're seeking for regulation in the nine senses, one of them being interception. And so when you look at it like me as a zero on the scale, I notice things, but not until they're like pretty heightened. And I'm like, Mila, we're like, that blister could pop on my foot and I'm like, oh yeah, something feels a little funny, but sage would just be like, I have a blister on my foot. I cannot do anything else. All I can notice is this blister. I cannot wear socks, I cannot sleep. What is the plan for me to be able to be alive on planet Earth while I have this blister on my foot? That's me. Yeah, because he's interceptive sensitive.

Rachel: [00:57:30] Oh, man, it's so true. I want that information out in the world because a it informs how I interact with my child who's also interoceptive sensitive. But also for so long I was told that the reason I felt these heightened sensations was because I was anxious, and I actually think a lot of my anxiety was the result of feeling the heightened sensations, but not having a name or a reason for why it felt so intense in my body. And I really wish that that had been named for me so that I could have said like, oh, this is what's normal for my body when I experience this sensation and there's nothing wrong with me. This is just how my nervous system understands what's happening inside my body.

Alyssa: [00:58:11] It's actually super power. You're so good at noticing those early cues, like, you are not gonna pass out from a standing position, ever, because you're going to notice those early cues and in fact, probably not pass out, because then you have somebody going to get the things that your body needs for you and the rest of us power through on accident because we don't notice those cues.

Rachel: [00:58:34] And then throw up at a keynote. Yeah.

Alyssa: [00:58:36] That's right. Whoopsies. First time probably won't be the last. I'm doing what I can. I also think that things get labeled like, oh, my gosh, just it's not that big of a deal. Or, oh, they have such a low pain tolerance. And it's really they just feel things so much more deeply. Think of two kids in my life who one is interceptive sensitive. One is not. And the one who is. They were like being made fun of because their sister was getting shots and was fine, but they were all nervous about getting the shot and it was going to hurt so bad. And they cried when they got it. And there was like this pressure to be like their sister. And I think this is not how that person's body works.

Rachel: [00:59:20] Yeah, totally.

Alyssa: [00:59:22] Their sister does not feel that shot in the same way that they do. Yeah.

Rachel: [00:59:26] It's a different truth. Like we were talking about before, it's not like receiving a vaccine or a shot. It's not a universal experience. How your nervous system interprets that is going to make your lived experience and your truth different from another person.

Alyssa: [00:59:41] Exactly, exactly. Who are we chatting about today?

Rachel: [00:59:46] Okay. This is Leslie Ford, and this is.

Alyssa: [00:59:50] Repair with self-care.

Rachel: [00:59:52] Yeah. And I felt very seen by a lot of this discussion. There was one thing in particular that she said. She said so many very validating things. And one of them was a way we as moms put a lot of pressure on ourselves to, like, be excellent in all areas. So, like, excellent in our parenting and our work and our relationships outside of parenthood. And we can't be excellent in all of the areas of our life without burning out. And that part of it is prioritizing, like, what are the highest priorities? And those are the areas that you can strive to be excellent in and then understanding that the other areas may not be like the standard that you set for yourself might not be realistic.

Alyssa: [01:00:41] Yeah.

Rachel: [01:00:42] Which is so real and so.

Alyssa: [01:00:46] Hard to accept.

Rachel: [01:00:48] It is. So I made the mistake of saying yes to a lot of tasks that are happening on a committee at my children's school that is volunteer based. And so I said yes. And then I was like, all right, I'm going to knock these tasks out because I have so many other things on my plate. So I knocked the tasks out and it had like the opposite effect, where the chair of the committee was like, you are a go getter. I need help with this project. And I'm like I can't continue to be excellent on this committee. It's not sustainable. I haven't told the chair of the committee that yet that I can't be excellent anymore, but I'm feeling like I can't.

Alyssa: [01:01:30] Or like, yeah, I'm a go getter in seasons. Right? It's so funny because I my kids started a new childcare in September and it's a really like lovely community. It's been around for 40 years. It's a really community based childcare program, and people really pitch in and help and whatever and collaborate on things. And we started in September and I published the book. We published the book in September, and then I've been on the go traveling. And so I feel like I joined this new childcare program, and I was like, here are my kids. Bye. See you never. And I just said to Zach, I was like, I feel like I need to send an email now that I can breathe. Now that I'm like mostly home for the next couple months. And just first of all, say thank you so much for taking my children while I traveled around and for taking such good care of them. And also, now that I can breathe, here are ways that I can be a part of the community. Here are things that I have to offer. Like, I'm never going to take the laundry home and do it because I barely keeping up with my own laundry. But I would be happy to do like a family workshop or professional development for the teachers, or observations in the classrooms. Or like, here's my skill set, here's how I can show up now that I have time and capacity. And with the caveat that this is a temporary offer, and I will be traveling again in March and April a bunch and not available to do any of it then. So please use my services for the next three months and then I will be disappearing again.

Rachel: [01:03:05] Yeah. Or like I for me, I'm like, I can do this. I can bang out these tasks for you, but then I need you to give me a break from the tasks. Like, don't keep giving me tasks. Like, the reason I was a go getter is because I needed to get them done. Because I have other stuff to do.

Alyssa: [01:03:23] But like communicating that right of like, here's what I can offer and for this limited amount of time, like I don't then have I don't have 20 hours to give you every week or whatever it is. I have ten hours to give on these projects right now. And then actually in this next season, I don't have time. Also, you're in wild the this time of year, I feel like it's nuts because it's hunting and birthday city over there. Three of the four birthdays in your household are all at the same time. And then you have Christmas. It's like nuts.

Rachel: [01:03:55] I'm unwell. I actually Cody's been gone so much and like, it gets, you know, we're getting to the end of hunting season, which means I've been living like this for several months. And I'm just getting to being over it. Actually, I was in a group chat of my friends when.

Alyssa: [01:04:13] For clarification, he doesn't just hunt. He also is a game warden. So hunting season is a busy season for him.

Rachel: [01:04:19] Workwise professionally. Yeah. So. But he also spends a lot of time in history and he also also hunts, which I try to honor because it is a limited time of the year and it is like his big passion. So I'm like trying to honor that, you know? But so we were in this group chat with my friends trying to figure out when to do a friend Christmas gathering, and I was like, you guys, this is too stressful for me. I can't squeeze in another holiday. You know, we came to February 7th.

Alyssa: [01:04:53] Yeah. Obsessed. Obsessed.

Rachel: [01:04:56] Because I was just like, I can't squeeze another thing into December because it's not just like family parties.

Alyssa: [01:05:03] It's

Rachel: [01:05:04] School concerts and.

Alyssa: [01:05:07] Everything.

Rachel: [01:05:07] Also, like in our family, volunteering through the holidays is like a thing that happens. And I don't want to give away time that needs to be spent doing the outreach. That is important to me. And yeah, it's just so many things. So anyway, this episode felt really timely. Yeah.

Alyssa: [01:05:27] For sure. Also, February for folks who live in the northeast are cold places like we do. I feel like it's a great time for it's why we do. Winter formal is the first weekend of February, and for folks who are new to Winter formal Zach and I have started hosting we call Winter formal. It's late 90s, early 2000 themed with little spins on it differently each year. Last year was like high school dance themed for late 90s early 2000. So dress attire, music, all of that. And it's like dance party slash hang. Food, drinks, games, all that. And we do it in February because we're like, we need something in February to look forward to. December is crazy. January. You're like kind of in recovery mode and slow down. And then by February we're like, how many more months of this? And there needs to be a thing. This year's winter formal theme I'm stoked joked about, by the way.

Rachel: [01:06:27] What is it?

Alyssa: [01:06:28] It is to come as your favorite movie or TV character from the late 90s early 2000, and Zach and I have fire costumes this year and little. Oh I'm stoked. It's real good. I will post a picture in February afterwards, but we are not sharing our costumes ahead of time. It's gonna be fun.

Rachel: [01:06:54] Yeah, I think February is. It is. It's a dark, like, depressing time where you just need winter to be over and it's not even nearly close to being over.

Alyssa: [01:07:03] Not even close.

Rachel: [01:07:04] A little fun activity during February is always.

Alyssa: [01:07:07] Good fun, fun tivity as we have named them. Yes. And we do have a Super Bowl in February, which in my household is very fun. But I needed another thing. Self-care has gotten so buzzwordy, but I like that she breaks it down, not as like a night out or whatever, but really, what does it look like to take care of you?

Rachel: [01:07:30] Absolutely. And the other thing that she mentioned that like, is so true, but I never thought about it this way. She was talking about like the hierarchy of needs, but for moms and saying that like at the base of the hierarchy of needs for moms is our children's well-being. And it's like, obviously, right, we're in this interconnected relationship. So much of what we do is ensuring that, but like to have it kind of laid out like that, where like we cannot fully embody it's this reciprocal relationship where like, we need to be able to take care of ourselves and regulate in order to ensure our kids well-being, but also our well-being is contingent upon theirs. And I had never thought about it like that.

Alyssa: [01:08:14] Yeah, it is so interesting. You think of like, yeah, obviously if they're sick or they need something, I'm forgoing my needs to show up for them. And what does that mean for us? I will say one pivot we've made in our household that has been really, really helpful. I need more sleep than Zach does to function as a human. Also, there's a good research now coming out.

Rachel: [01:08:37] I was going to say women generally do.

Alyssa: [01:08:38] Women in general. Well, we studied women for four seconds and found something out new. That's helpful. Cool. So maybe keep that train rolling.

Rachel: [01:08:46] Also, I just have one question, like just about whoever made the decisions about humans and how I have my beliefs about who made them, but I know they're not universal. But like for the person who needs more sleep, why are they the person who makes milk from their body?

Alyssa: [01:09:01] Yeah. Yes.

Rachel: [01:09:03] Why?

Alyssa: [01:09:04] I don't know the answer, but. Agreed. I think it's friggin bullshit. Like we also, I don't I don't know that our bodies were intended to keep having. Like I had kids in my mid to late 30s, and I don't know that that like, my mom had a kid at 19 and at 21 and at 23 and at 27 at 32 and by 32. She was like, oh, that one was the hardest. I was so tired. This is my 30s. I'm like, yeah, all of mine were in my 30s, so I'm tired.

Rachel: [01:09:34] I was way more tired with Abel, and that was only 27. And I was like, wow, this is way harder than the last time.

Alyssa: [01:09:40] Yeah, totally. I think that like, part as part of it, that maybe having kids and still nursing as I'm entering into perimenopause isn't the best idea for my body. But here we are.

Rachel: [01:09:52] I okay, so anyway, you guys have made a shift to support your sleep.

Alyssa: [01:09:57] Yeah. So we made a shift in that. I was like, listen, I'm gonna grow these humans. I'm gonna work hard to feed them for my body. And was fortunate that that could happen. And also, I'm not going to respond to them overnight once they're done feeding overnight, which is now our kids are both not feeding overnight. And so Zach does any nighttime wake ups. He puts them down for bed. He gets up with them in the morning and he doesn't need nighttime wake ups. We have like carved out. I am, for the most part, off from parenting, from the hours of like 9 p.m. to 7:30 a.m., sometimes earlier than nine. Most of the nights, earlier than nine. But if things are still raging at nine, I'll tap. I'll help until nine.

Rachel: [01:10:45] You're like 901. Sorry. I'm out.

Alyssa: [01:10:47] Deuces. They're your kids now, baby. But that has been so helpful for me from a self-care standpoint because I am the one that like, if they're sick, if they're whatever, I generally have more work flexibility. I'm the one sacrificing my stuff and my needs. He pretty much stands to like, he's gonna shower, he's gonna go to work, he's gonna go get his haircut. He's going to do these things for him. Somebody made a comment the other day about how long my hair is now, and I was like, oh, yeah, I just had another kid and haven't had time to get it cut. And I've had exactly one haircut in two years, and I'm the one who sacrifices my needs during the day for them and the shift to like, it's him who's going to give up sleep. Unless obviously it's like a tag team situation where, like, we got throwing up kids and somebody changing sheets, then I'll get up. But for the most part.

Rachel: [01:11:40] In the regular.

Alyssa: [01:11:41] Yes. Like even if sage comes into our room, which, knock on wood, he doesn't do a ton, he goes right to his side. He doesn't even come to my side of the bed. He's like, yeah, she's out.

Rachel: [01:11:50] Yeah. Which is so nice. Cool. So we split the nights like Nora doesn't come to me, like, ever. And that's been true since I went through chemo. Abel sleeps through the night, so it's, like, not an issue. But I do sleep in his room, so I'm there. But, like, if I'm in there, he'll just, like, wake up and see that I'm there and then put himself back to sleep. But it's such a game changer to one of the things that's hard about getting sleep, I think as a mom is like, there's always a part of you that's like, oh, someone gonna need me tonight? And like, for you to be able to be like, yeah, if somebody needs something, they're going to be taken care of. And it doesn't have to be me. It just makes accessing sleep so much easier.

Alyssa: [01:12:36] That's it. It's not even the actual like, how many times are they waking up? It's the me being off part that really shifted to now. Knock on wood. Most nights I get between 8 and 9 hours of sleep and I could have had. It's not like Mila was waking up a bunch or was waking a bunch before then, but I was still on. And so my quality of sleep, the amount that I was able to sleep, it just wasn't as much as now where I know I'm off and my brain will turn off.

Rachel: [01:13:05] Yeah, it's so different.

Alyssa: [01:13:07] Yeah. Huge. Huge. Well, I hope folks snag repair with self care and really look at letting themselves off the hook for not being perfect in all these areas, and looking at what even led us to believing that we have to be perfect in all these areas. And my commitment to myself, I'm about to I'm presenting at the Macy conference National Association for the Education of Young Children, which is the largest early childhood conference, and I'm headed down to Florida to present there. It's me and three other teammates. We have a table there as well to table for seed, and we're seeing it a really fun, nice hotel. It's going to be 80 degrees. I'm flying there and back on a plane by myself. I'm doing one 90 minute presentation on Friday. I'll be there Wednesday to Saturday and I'm going into this. My commitment going into this trip is to just enjoy it, to love that I'm in the sun, hang out in the pool, have a good time and feel no guilt for the fact that he is home in 30 degree weather parenting our children.

Rachel: [01:14:22] Sounds like a great plan.

Alyssa: [01:14:24] This is my commitment to me. And because then I will come back in a different place for my kids. Yeah. That's right. Repair with self care.

Alyssa: [01:14:38] Thanks for tuning in to Voices Of Your Village. Check out the transcript at Voices Of Your Village. Com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content? Come join us at CDC. Take a screenshot of you tuning in, share it on the gram and tag and to let me know your key takeaway. If you're digging this podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. We love collaborating with you to raise emotionally intelligent humans.